Every Day is Hard and Every Day is Beautiful, with Ellen Duncan

Ellen Duncan strives to live a life of joy alongside grief. Every day she models strength, love, and faith for her daughters and all who know her. In July 2022, life took a shocking turn and she lost her husband Paul of 10 years while he was out on a morning run. A heart condition - hypertrophic cardiomyopathy – which Paul was unaware he had, took his life and created a new path for the family. In this conversation with host Bill Moran, Ellen shares the love story between her and Paul and it’s beginnings during the autumn of 2009 on the campus of the University of Notre Dame. Paul, a graduate student and offensive tackle for the Fighting Irish, and Ellen, in her junior year, found a deep connection that evolved from friendship into a profound love. Two years later they married and began a family. After a short time in the NFL, Paul built a successful career as an industry leader in construction management with the Walsh Group in Atlanta, while in 2020, Ellen founded a strategic marketing company called Pineapple Partners. Their story and life together was filled with joy and efforts to live each day to the fullest. No one is ever prepared for the hardship that lands in their path, but Ellen felt touched by the Holy Spirit and has slowly been putting the pieces in place to honor Paul’s big-hearted life by helping others and finding daily strength despite the ever-present grief. On her Instagram page -@pineapplellen -Ellen inspires others who are dealing with loss by sharing her experiences of grief, hope, love and faith, demonstrating and again modeling a path forward. Paul was only 35 and was taken too soon, but he created a light with Ellen that she shines onto others through her work and her smile. Her grace filled story that she shares will lift anyone who has touched loss, can be heard here and watched here. 

Before Matt passed in August of 2023, he followed Ellen on Instagram and had discussed having her on the WGM show. Some commonality in their stories but mostly Matt saw Ellen’s wisdom, her desire to be present, and wanted to shine his light on her story. May the Heavenly light of both Paul and Matt inspire and bless all of those listening today.  

Transcript

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Well, hello with gratitude Matt listeners. My name is Bill Moran, and I'm Matt's older brother. And today I will be your host for Hour with Gratitude Matt Show. Matt's goal with this show is to inspire more people to practice gratitude on a regular basis. As you know, Matt passed away this past August. Matt confronted adversity in illness and let it be a catalyst for his life, which was deep in gratitude, love and faith. Please know that Matt and his wife, Mary, their girls, and the entire Moran family appreciate all your love, prayers, support and generosity. We are so grateful and blessed to be a part of such a supporting, caring and loving community. I'm humbled and honored today to be here with our guest, Ellen Duncan. Welcome, Ellen. Hi, Bill. Thanks for having me. Thanks. The story of Ellen is really a love story of Ellen and Paul Duncan. They met in September of 2009 while students at Notre Dame Paul, a 2009 grad, was taking graduate classes in the fall of 2009 and was also the starting offensive tackle for the Fighting Irish football team. And Ellen was just beginning her junior year at Notre Dame. Their relationship started as a friendship and blossomed into so much more. After Ellen returned from her semester abroad in London in the spring of 2010, Ellen earned her degree. In 2011, and a year later they married. They are blessed with two amazing daughters, Dylan and Sloan. Paul established himself as an industry leader in Construction management with the Walsh Group in Atlanta, and in 2020, Ellen founded Pineapple Partners, a strategic marketing and growth consultancy business. Then God's plan for the Duncans changed. Suddenly, Paul was called to his Heavenly home on July 16th, 2002, with the support of her family, her friends, and her deep Catholic faith. Ellen decided to share her experiences of grief, hope, love and faith with others. Ellen, thank you for being here today. Before we get into what you are sharing with others, I'd like to kind of get to know you and let the listeners get to know you. So kind of why don't you just walk us through where you grew up and how did your family and all those kinds of beautiful things. Sure, I'm happy to and really glad to be part of this message. I had the chance to interact a little bit with Mad just over, you know, social media and email before he passed. So, so glad to be able to join today. So I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which is where I now am back for all the sort of chapters that life has unfolded, especially in the last year and a half for us. So I grew up outside Philadelphia, actually lived abroad. Growing up we lived in London and I'm from a very vast and deep Notre Dame family. Both my parents went to that end in law school. I think I have if I look on some file, 27 aunts, uncles, grandparents, great grandparents, great great grandparents. There's a lot of deep that idiom history. I always joke that I fulfilled the the dream by married and entertained football player. It's sad, but the my daughter Dylan actually. So Father Patrick Dylan is an ancestor of ours so lots of Notre Dame history there but grew up in Pennsylvania, went to Notre Dame undergrad, and then Paul and I lived in Chicago for a few years and then Atlanta for ten years. I have three brothers who two of whom are also Notre Dame grads, and they live in the D.C. Philadelphia areas. Yeah. So just sort of been in a whirlwind, obviously, for the last year and a half. But as you talked about there, and I'm sure we'll talk about more just sort of the foundation of everything that came before has been helpful for us to be able to continue going forward. Right. Yeah. No, that's that's wonderful. And I'm glad you're back with family in the Philly area. You know, one of the things that I found really touching was when you spoke at at Paul's funeral and we're going to bounce around a little bit, but what you spoke of was how you were introduced. And I think that's just just a charming story. Please share that with the listeners. One of my favorites. So my beautiful mother in law, Julie Duncan, with Paul's parents, were wonderful supporters of him in general. Obviously, and in his football career. And so they attended, I think, every single Notre Dame football team game while he was a player. And so in September 5th of 2009, it was the first Notre Dame football home game of that season. And we were some girlfriends and I were at CJ's pub, the old CJ's of those I know, not the new one and the I say there's a couple different versions of the story of longer story, but one of my best friends, Bridesmaid in our wedding best friend remaining today she pointed out Paul Paul at the time had a long hair. He was probably over £300 and six seven. And she said, That guy looks like Gaston from Beauty and the Beast used That sort of is a villain. But it was a big guy, good looking guy. And we sort of laughed, moved on and then fast forward several hours and the night I wanted to go home and try to find someone to take a cab with. And this woman tapped me on the shoulder and said, Sweetie, you are so cute. And I said, Oh, thank you. Thought she was going to try to ask me to move or something. And and she said, Would you meet my son? And I was like, That's an interesting question. And I said, Well, who is he? As you pointed. And it was Gaston. And so I said, Oh, once Erika will think this is hilarious. I mean, that's done. And so the rest is sort of history from there. That's great. At what point did you ever share with him that you had nicknamed him a guest on We? That's the news. We, you know, sort of fell for each other very fast. And so by a few weeks into our relationship, he was like, I guess I had to stop calling you guest on to but actually referred to as Paul. Oh. Oh gosh that's great. How did he take that? You know, there's always a funny story. The girl still definitely has a story. We tell a lot. So even probably about a year ago I played sort of an avid tennis player, especially in our Atlanta chapter. And one of my tennis partners gave me a little Gaston figurine to carry around in our tennis bag. So still lives. That's beautiful. I hope that still is in your tennis bag. Yes. So then. But then you studied abroad in London, second semester of 2009. Were you dating or how did like what happened? We were at sort of a when I look back at it now and, you know, at, oh, I guess almost 36, you still feel like you're have all this wisdom now. But we so I was 21 at the time when we met and I went, yeah, So we started dating and then Paul was he said a non-degree seeking grad student, which was a funny term for him. I know they showed his title on TV, but he had graduated. And then at that point, the coaching philosophy at Notre Dame was to not have fifth year pursue graduate degrees. And so Paul then went into sort of the journey of exploring professional football. And so that spring, so of January of 2010, I went to London. He was training and we had so it's we dated zoomed. I guess Zoom did exist at that point and it was a whirlwind, like I said, a week, so that when I got back in May of 2010 from London and we got engaged. So and I think back to it and it all, you know, I obviously no regrets on any of it and we were able to have all the time together. But people were shocked because I was engaged before my senior year of college. So sort of not completely atypical for a Notre Dame. But now and I, you know, meet a 21 year old, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe that was that. Young. Wow. So that a fairy tale wedding in April of 2012. Yeah. So then shortly thereafter, the family comes in with the birth of your first daughter, Dylan. When did when, when was Dylan born? Then? In August of 2015. So we had a we lived in Chicago for a few years. And then Paul got an opportunity to with the Walsh Group, Archer Western, which is an entertainment company, to work on a project in Atlanta. And so he grew up in that broader Atlanta area. I worked for Accenture at the time, and so we just sort of said, let's try to move be near closer to the Duncan side for a few years. And then we ended up staying both girls were born in Atlanta. Sloan was born in 2017. I ended up transitioning from Accenture to the Coca-Cola Company and spent close to seven years working for Coca-Cola and really had just established some great roots in Atlanta. And at that point in time, what was life like for the four of you. Really, you know, truly beautiful. That's one of the things that makes it so hard but so great. I mean, grateful for everything that happened is I we talk a lot about the sort of just few days even right before Paul fell, where the night before we were at our favorite restaurant had a picture. Margarita, the girls are having a great time the morning of Just in our Groove and we really yeah had found a great in our groove, I guess best way to say it. So in 2022, Sloan was four and Dylan was six and they where? Yeah, we were just in a great place, had beautiful we had moved into a new home in 2018, had great neighborhood, great things for good. So Paul like being a girl did, and he made that be known and you know, and we'll get into a little bit about, you know, your your message and how you share it on your Instagram, which is amazing. So it's hard for me to even talk about it. I you lived it. So that's your story. So on Friday, July 15th, Paul goes out for some exercise. And he was you know, you mentioned before, I got to tell you, you know, as an offense of I'm I'm not an offensive lineman. Paul was an offensive lineman. He was a big guy, you know, like you said. But the photos and the videos that I saw, Paul, was he was trim and fit. He wasn't the £300 offensive lineman. So he had really transformed his body. Look more like a I would say, a basketball power forward kind of. Is that an accurate kind of. Sure. Tight end. A lot of people. Okay. There you go. There you go. Paul played for sort of a cup of coffee, as he would say. The NFL for the Broncos. And then for a variety of reasons, most of really, you know, speak for him just up until he wanted to sort of start our life and not be, you know, just sort of out questions on month to month what what would be happening with a football career. So he decided to pursue a more, I guess, traditional business career. And so I was started working with the Walsh Group. But you sort of see these two trajectories sometimes that former, you know, especially elite level football players take or they just sort of lean into being the big guy or and Paul definitely took the other extreme and was very, very active, very sad in the year prior to passing away, he ran two marathons, one right at 4 hours. So he was definitely very good shape. Yeah, that's well, he his athletic prowess carried from basketball football over to distance running and that's amazing. So he goes out for his run and and then the next day he was called to heaven. And this is beautiful and it's I have a set. Well, I borrowed this from a good friend who lost both her husband and her son. And she says, beautiful. It's brutal and beautiful at the same time. But so used to tell the girls that Paul's past and if you could share that story, which again, is is beautiful and painful all at the same time for sure. Yep. So exactly as you said, Bella going out for a run, our younger daughter was with him. I happened to be on a conference call. Paul's sister at the time was actually working on a project with me, so she was on the call. So a lot of things that again, you know, made it. Communication happened quickly when I got the call from the police. But all of what you say, the hard sort of of the story that leads up to is that I was close to our house within our neighborhood. I went down ambulances, police cars, fire trucks. I was he was, you know, wanted to get to Sloan. And then as soon as I saw the way the police officer looked at me, I just had this immediate, you know, shot of the whole experience. The only way to describe it that I knew my life was never going to be the same. And it just was this immense sort of feeling of protection and strength and also just this true reality that now in, you know, reflect a lot of reflection and talking about it. A lot of other people didn't that were involved or, you know, within the next 24 hours came to under know what happened but didn't have that experience. I really had this like pivotal moment of like our life will never be the same, you know, I shouldn't say versus but others I really don't know how holding on to this. Everything can be okay type of hope. So the day proceeds to happen, you know, the way that sort of of whole sort of blessing some of my very, very best friends in the world as an interventional cardiologist. And he was able to again, sort of from the first minute that he spoke to the doctors and like he knew that like this is an it just was there were I was able to communicate in a way that I knew what the reality was, even though we weren't officially told for another day. So all that to say the girls were with their cousins. And someone said to me in the course of those 6 hours on Friday, I would hate to when we when it was evident what was sort of to come, someone said to me, I would hate to have known that on the day my dad died, I was like having a really fun day and it just sort of not to me. And I said, You know, I should I should see the girls I had the girls brought back to our house only about 10 minutes to the hospital, went home. And I just been praying and just looking for clarity on what to say. I was extremely young, obviously experienced. I frankly, no one had been through that in my network or circle or actually that point as close friends that were even part of it. And I had the girls come inside and said to them, and they're there now I you about look at I'm like, oh my gosh, they were so tiny at that point that and said that dads, we don't know if that's brains going to start working again. And so there was two questions because I wanted to know for them did they want to see him? Because at that point that could have had an implication. It didn't end up into the organ donation possibilities and then just basically let him know that that's we'll find out tomorrow of his brain will start will start working again. And they cried. I was I was crying. And then they just sort of said, so, well, let's just go get some make some macaroni and cheese and we have a sort of tradition in our house, which we still do, of having sort of playlists and songs that we play. And so Dylan said, my older daughter, we should play the morning playlist and the song that Daddy just added. And I was like, What are you talking about? Because it's not exactly. It's more like my style to add songs. So players have like I think Dad added a song to the morning playlist and she's like, Hey, no, he did. He did. And so I said, There's no Alexa in this room. I said, Alexa, play the morning playlist and I can only imagine My Mercy Me started playing. And it's truly I mean, I get chills, right? It was like the most evident, palpable feeling of Paul's on his way to heaven. And he's here and wants us to know. And my sister, two of my sisters in law, were in the house at the time, and so they were able to experience it with us. And it was, yeah, it's just one of those. So powerful if. You can't explain it. Well. And for Dylan to have the presence of mind in the light of that circumstance, to ask to hear that song and, and the, the title of it and the lyrics, I mean, my gosh, that well, it's it's a it's a it's a painful moment. It's that and an oh, and I there's no other word for it. It's a tragedy. It is. But you have, like you said, with the power of the Holy Spirit and the protection of that, you have decided that you're going to help others. And how did how did that all come about? Like, how did you you're grieving the loss of your husband. You're raising two young children. And how did you lean into your faith and find the strength to do that? Yeah. So a few things on it. Part of the sort of the social media sharing and it was very organic, was very natural for me in general that I like to share, you know, just stuff on social media, a family, etc.. And then Paul's the story of Paul's passing did get some national media coverage. I always like to say that he would have said, Man, it was in a slow Newsweek if I was. So I knew that the he was for a variety of reasons, the way I have. I have family that works in media. So they always try to like explain how it probably got picked up. But his story got picked up. It was on ABC, even evening news, People.com, things like that. In a lot of those in things like people it referenced my I you know sort of just shared to my at that point a close network of family of friends that poured past and so sort of organic and then I just really I always say it's not that there's no thought that goes into it. There's obviously thought, but it's really just what naturally is on my mind is in the process that the things I've experienced and just have chosen to keep sharing. It's been really powerful that to recognize in a fruitful way that I mean everyone experiences loss. I would say I had no idea how many widows and widowers in their thirties and forties there are out there that every day it's yeah it's it's I think it's being able to wherever anyone is in a lost journey or whether they're close into it or friends of somebody that's lost a partner, a spouse that it's helpful to me to share and then it's, you know, helpful to know it's helpful to other people. Is it so you said that it is helpful to you is so in a way and I'm not a therapist, but is it therapeutic in a way to to share that? Wow. Okay. That putting it out in a different I mean, I so I go to therapy all the time. I'm so close family and friends I talk to about things but it is. Yeah, just different sort of method of sharing that's helpful for me. Good. And I would think and, you know, I mean, I can't even put myself in your shoes, but I would think that the the love that you and Paul had and the love that he had for you and the girls is kind of the foundation of this. And I guess you just have to trust God's plan. Is that kind of how you go day to day? Yeah, I always say I don't I don't like to think that Paul passing away was in God's plan, but obviously we're in a earthly world. We don't know exactly. But the I am confident in there's so many. I was just saying that this week to somebody about was like, I don't know why part I would have ever had this conversation when the girls were two and four about whatever it was. And but we really had this beautiful foundation of a relationship and had a had. So I love planning and vision setting and all those types of things. And so we'd had a lot of conversations about what would our family look like five years, ten years, what did we want to do, where would we want to retire? Kind of trips? Would we want to take? One small example is in the summer of 23 we had planned, so that would have been eight this past summer. To live in London for a month. Didn't do it, obviously, sort of within year one of everything happening. But the girls are going this summer. And so it's just things that again yeah, we're just I know you know, with the most confidence that Paul wants us to continue living and it's going to be different and it is different. But he would be very mad at me if I was, you know, not being myself and not doing the stuff that he loved about me. And I don't. Think he could ever be mad with you, but I do. So when you have, like you said, like when you have the life that might have been versus the life you're living now, so you know that. How do you how do you what is your family? You know, what are your family mean now? What is your extended family mean? How do they your friends support you? What what what are the what does that look like? Yeah, there's a few things I think that come to mind. One is that I, I try to. I think the girls deserve a family and to not have it. And so even things that at first were even hard for me of you know that. But like we are a family we're not just the three like we're is really doing as much as I can to set them up with the life experience and the that we can't change what's happened and we can't bring Paul back. But what can we do to still have them be, you know, experience the best life they can experience. So it's I'd I'd say it it is changes all the time. I try to be, you know, transparent and of what I need from people, what what's helpful, what's not helpful. But a lot of it we still I mean we're just 21 months in that we just don't know. We don't know at any given time, you know, where. And so it's also been having the right people sort of in your day to day court that can just meet you where you are and be open to it, and which I've been blessed, really have the right, wonderful family, but also some very, very close friends that are there for me always. Well. That's good to know, because oftentimes people can be experts on other's lives. And I'm sure when you go through a tragedy like this, others may not be as respectful or diplomatic in their, you know, voicing of opinions. It sounds like that's not the case for you, which is great. Now, I have put it's been yeah, truly has not. But something I've had to really deal with, which is in great and even in choosing to sort of share our lives, parts of our lives publicly, similarly there's very, very people are always like, Oh my gosh, you must get so many comments. And it's like, Knock on wood or degree, but it's just been a very positive experience. Well, I think one of the things that, you know, and that I think this is a testimony to your love and and for Paul and in the family was what Sloane said. I think it was slowing where she was. I think she was she praying or was she how did this happen, where she talked about the family and and it was Frankie, your dog, Dylan, her sister, You mom or mom, Dad and Jesus. I mean, how does how does a five or six year old come up with that? Well, it's because of you and Paul. Yeah. Now the girls have very true. I talk to this a lot, just sort of this these beautiful things actually fairly different. Even Paul and I. Steve, Life was different as well in terms of what we, you know, how well we outwardly practiced and things like that. But we, the girls are so in such a beautiful way, black and white on. That's an even and there's no question on it there's that is I'd say anything where I do I am sort of sometimes proactively more protective is if they are going to therapy or teachers or things like that. It's just making sure we're all on the same page. No one can argue with them about where Dad is and what that is. The but they Yep. Sloan They're just so I guess I just direct in black and white that that's what Jesus, my grandmother, they call it great in the north where they they had St Mary's got up to me a few times before she, she passed away a year before. Paul And they're very black and white about dad hanging out with great Nina Dylan just had her first reconciliation about a month ago and she goes, Do you think Dad and Great Nina went to and grabbed her and said, Let's get some popcorn and watch Dylan and so just they're just so it's a he's a he's beautifully present in our lives is the best way to say it. Sloan speaks about them in the present tense. It catches people off guard a lot, honestly. Like where they just. Yeah, they don't. There's no question that he's in heaven. But also witnessing our life on Earth. Didn't one of the girls explain to you what she wanted her children to call? Paul Yeah. If you had heard the conversation, like if someone had overheard, they would have this. By no means thought that Sloane's dad is in heaven like she just said. Oh, and, like, when I'm. My kids are. When I have kids, they're going to call you. I forget where she even told me to call me and then Dad, Grandpa. But you know, it wasn't even is a so obvious or that of course, her kids are going to wow, Dad, he's going to be a part of our lives. And is that just, you know, stuff that it's. Yeah, definitely, you know, painful but beautiful. Yeah. How did so you know in in again if if you're willing to share this but what kind of daily practices do you employ to kind of help you each day and and do what you're doing when you're running a business, you're a parent, you're, you know. Yeah, definitely a lot going on because it's helps me also just keep going in general. So again so thankful I had a have always been up with a strong faith grew up in the Catholic Church, had a pretty substantial sort of faith formation about high school in college or just been really active in a lot of different ministries and developed a pretty just a commitment to prayer gives me the best way to say it. And so having that foundation and already been sort of part of our lives was again, great because it's not like we went. It's just as continue to have deeper meaning, deeper meaning or different meaning in this chapter. But I guess to answer your question, it's constant sort of conversation of prayer with whoever it is deciding to speak to at that point and then try to There's a few devotionals that I'm pretty consistent with that are just helpful to sort of like reframe and reset at different times. And then obviously the practice of going to mass. My parents go to daily mass. I sometimes try to join them, try to yeah, it's like a lot of a continuation. And just like I sort of this quarter I the time that everything's the same, but everything's different and that's a lot of it as well. Do you still talk to Paul? I mean, all the time for sure. Oh, sorry. That's great. And I know a lot of our it's always fun, that fun. But the of family and friends that will tell me different things or even sometimes where people that as I say, knew us together well and the sort of love but also you know I rolls he would have with me sometimes of my antics that if you were like, Oh, I got Paul's for sure I can talk about right out rolling his eyes at you. I'm sure. Yes, that's what that's what I was worried about. But anyway, so do you see Paul and the girls? Oh, my gosh. Yes, I do. There's mannerisms. There's. That's. Yes, there they are. They they're both obviously beautiful, strong girls. And I will definitely see him. Always and will always answer questions because. So Paul is six, seven, five, six. And the girls are definitely going to be have will have his height in. So let's see that the go is like a three of us walking around one day and be like why did this come about? So you know that lie was alive and well in in our lives but definitely within the girls as well. Well, they are going to be taller than you, that's for sure. Yeah. Before I. Yeah. You posted that the other day and it was like good lord, they're there. They are almost, you know, not quite eye to I, but that's great. Well, but one of the things that I've noticed is and you and Paul were blessed that in the sense of you didn't take any moment for granted. And I think you alluded to that when you were out for margaritas the couple of nights before in those you cherished all of those moments. And what what advice can you give to others like, you know, that are kind of just going through the day, marking time? Yeah, no, definitely. I was going to say that there's this I talk a lot about sort of this commitment to living, and it's not just because of everything that happens. We had that before the it was just this truly, I mean, sort of unique part of Paul especially. I'd say in our when we sort of hit our stride and as we became parents and in careers is that we shouldn't be waiting for certain things. I he would love to enjoy life, love to, you know, tend to other friends and family. At one point I was like, we probably should figure out how many rounds of golf he played. And 12 months before he passed, he never said no to a round of golf. He never said no to have I, you know, had time to go out to lunch, to out to lunch to Justin. So I think what I always is just to, you know, not even the cliche of like you never know what can happen tomorrow but just want is enjoy who you're with, what you're doing. If you have the ability to impact to do that in your work, in your, you know, friends family. I've become even continuing to learn that Paul actually had been pushing me even right around the time when he passed away of just being more purposeful with friendships and, you know, not you don't need to be spending time with everybody a little bit more. You know, let's spend time with the people that are really filling our cup or filling their cups. The head is trying to continue that. And then what I try to always remind myself of is this commitment to living here Like we don't we can't go back, we can't change anything. So but with the life we have now, let's do the best we can. Well, I noticed that one of the things that you are very intentional about in Matt was one of his four was being present with others and your so giving of your time and of your energy that I can see that in your in your life. But what choices you kind of wrote wrote about this in your your posts that you make each day like your you choose to be happy choose to be grateful. You choose to be loving. What how did you draw strength to do that? It's I mean, for sure, faith is where the strength comes from. And also and I just can't imagine doing it. The other choices, I just you know, part of it is just sort of who who I am. Obviously, with Paul's influence and partnership for so long. But I just for myself and then especially for the girls, like I just Paul had a thing that sort of you get he had a saying he loved I talk about this in his eulogy that you either get better or worse. You never stay the same. And he would have things that he would say that are like a classic Paul Duncan quote is, When we were in college, you know, people bus, you were wearing sweat pants. And he was like, it takes the same effort to put on a pair of jeans as it does to take out of foot off here, sweat pants like, why do people just put on a pair of jeans the get go into the day? And so just wanting to. Yeah. Continue that making the choices to get better versus, you know, worse obviously when people are in grief and sadness or is doesn't mean you there is time to grieve and you should grieve and everyone still grieves forever. But the yeah just to imagine not choosing that especially for myself but then to set the best example for the girls. Well, and I think you said that best in one of your messages, and I'll try to quote it here where you were striving to live a life of love and light with your daughters. Each day is hard, but each day is beautiful. And I think that's true and that's what you're doing. I'm not a professional. You're not a professional, but you're living it. What advice do you have for families that have suffered loss? You things come to mind. One is that to not run from it or try to, you know, work around it. One thing I continue to learn and try to do is that when you're going to I, I sort of have this thing I've talked about recently of was something like that. We're always going to feel sad. Like there's just there's always going to be a void of Paul. And so it's like don't in times where I've tried to say, Oh well that'll go away or we'll be able to that'll get it's easy. I think it's better just to sort of like work through it and accept the hard and work through the hard. The other things I would say that are is to keep it's keeping them alive in the way that it makes sense and is best for you and your family. But don't I mean we talk this is I mean, people say it, it hurts whatever hurts. Reiterating like say their name, talk about them, talk about the loss and made you laugh. Talk about their human stuff that they're also not. I always said Paul would not want to be is like perfect thing. He was back in remember like that like we all have We joke that's lone talks way too much about his farting that needs to be remembered for that sort of like favorite thing to talk about but like there was let's keep their memories alive and that because that's going to that helps so much then feeling like you're you know, trying to put something in a box and put it on a shelf. Yeah, I'm glad you said that about the human humanness of it. And you can because we, we have a tin can not I didn't lose a spouse, but, but I did lose a brother. And we tend to be very reverent of them. And I kind of have to take a step back and. Well, you knew who Paul was better than anybody in the world, and I knew who Matt was. So he just kind of take it for what it's worth. But that is that that's but that makes it fun and makes it real too. And you're being true to them. So I don't want to take too much of your time. I'm sure Dylan and Sloan are going to be getting off. Do they take the bus or do they? I don't even got to. After school, but they're also. Okay. Yeah, so. But kind of, you know, we're getting close to our the end of our time. But is there anything else you want to share about Paul or your journey for the listeners here? No, I. Appreciate now it's been so good to have this conversation. I think for any of the listeners here that whether you've experienced loss or, you know, people is they still sort of talk about have that choice to do your best to, you know, find the pause, find the light in what's there. It doesn't mean that some days are, you know, 99% dark, but that this person left a positive impact on you, on your life, on the world. And then the most that you can do to sort of bring that forward and continue to the other part is to find what that next version of yourself is. I so much of myself is the same. So much is completely different. And that's been another sort of really helpful recognition and for myself is that I am forever completely changed. Having gone through this experience and not having Paul by my side here and that I think it's okay to be a different person. Okay, that you might your friendships might change a little bit the way you parent definitely changes the way that how you show up, what you prioritize, all those things. And it's not. It's sort of like leaning into that. This is the this is this next chapter of life for you that you didn't want or would never have asked for, but that you're not trying to make yourself feel like you have to be the same person you were before. That's that's great. That's beautiful. And I know you're doing it. Ellen, I can't thank you enough for chatting with us today and for being an inspiration to all the families. And they follow you on Instagram and that follow your message of love and hope and your journey. Matt was called to his heavenly home as Paul was. Well, and I know they're up there looking over us, and I hopefully they're maybe having some popcorn, like Dylan said, and enjoying each other's friendship. I'm honored to have you as a guest. You know, I always say I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds it. And you're living that for sure. Before we close our show today, I want to encourage our listeners to follow Ellen Duncan Pineapple Ellen on Instagram. We're going to post that in the show notes, how to, you know, follow that and more information about Ellen. Matt always reminded us to do three things each and every day, to live life, to fullest, find something you're grateful for. Regardless of how powerful the storm is to be present to those you are with. Pay attention to what you're feeding your mind, your body and your soul. Again, a huge thank you to our guest, Ellen Duncan. To our listeners, remember to subscribe to the show, share it with friends and comment with gratitude. Matt Listeners until the next time, find the courage to be grateful. Godspeed, my friends.